Karim Toupin-Chaieb

The full conversation with Karim Toupin-Chaieb, transcribed. Lightly formatted for reading.

You have to take those times, time to breathe and to reflect and to come back even more focused. I think the key in business is to believe in what you're doing. It's very interesting. And what attracted you to the business model of franchising?

Do your best and believe in what you're doing. Stay focused, look at every detail, and have fun. Welcome, it's a pleasure to have you on the Montreal Entrepreneur Podcast. Thank you for coming.

I'm excited to see all the good advice you're going to give us and share your story. Hopefully, hopefully. Thanks for having me. For those who don't know who you are, please give us a brief overview of who you are and what you do.

I'm an actor. That's where everything started for me. I went to the theater school, I started acting, and I was an entrepreneur, an actor entrepreneur, let's say. My father is in import-export, the meat business in Europe, and so I really liked the business side of things.

And as an actor, my a little theater company. Oh, you did? Yeah. So I started pretty young after theater school.

Not young. Yeah, not a teenager. Yeah, no, no. More in early 20s.

Yeah. With my company, theater company, and doing des tournées. I don't know. Yeah.

That's okay. Yeah. And so I always liked business and I was playing in my first big role was at Radio-Canada CBC in French and La Part des Anges, un téléroman. And I was playing with a great actor, Michel Dumont, a French-Canadian actor, and he said, "Hey Karim, you just finished school and now you're working as an actor.

" Oh yeah, roller coaster. Yeah, I was very excited. I'm making money and yeah, I'm doing good. I'm doing good.

But After that, maybe for 2, 3 years, you're not going to work almost. You have to find a new acting position. Yeah, exactly. I was training in a club, Energy Cardio, at the time.

Okay, you were a trainer? No, not a trainer. I was just training, working out. Okay, working out at the gym.

I was working out, yeah, at Energy Cardio, and I became friends with the owner. Okay. Kind of business I would like to have. It's very positive and you're doing good to people and So, uh, how, how can I become an owner, a gym owner?

So I knew nothing about that, but I, I opened my first club in the early 2000s. First, uh, it was Energy Cardio at that time. Okay, yeah. Second, the third one, started another company to equip clubs.

Maybe we're going to detail, but that's okay. But I started a company, Stack Fitness, to equip all the gyms and sold my company. The equipment company? The equipment company, yeah.

It was bought by one of the largest companies in the world, Johnson Health, Taiwanese company. They bought my company, StackFit. Went back as a club owner a few years ago with Crunch. Okay, so you had like a deep dive in the industry for a while.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The industry, it's what I know. À part Acting, that's the thing I know the, the most. The most, yeah, exactly.

So would you say that it was good advice from your— It was great advice, yeah. So that was funny because it was my part-time job. My job was acting, my part-time job was a business. Yeah, but after a few years it became— It's very interesting— totally different.

So my acting, I continue, I do some acting still today. Still today, yeah, but I don't have much time, so I'm choosing once in a while. You're very selective of the jobs. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. It's my sideline now. It's— I'm doing it for fun. For— Yeah.

So now your business becomes the full-time job. Yeah. And then acting becomes— Exactly. A side passion.

It's very interesting. And what attracted you to the business model of franchising? Because a lot of people these days, they— yes, franchising, we know about it, but a lot of people, they rather like start from scratch. Yeah.

What made you decide, you know what, I'm just going to I've done both, like Stack Fitness, the company, the fitness equipment provider company. I created from scratch. Yeah, became— took the Quebec market and after that Canadian market and became one of the largest companies in Canada for equipment. Very impressive.

Service equipment provider. I've done both. What I like in the franchising, franchising. Yeah.

For me, maybe it's different because it's in Quebec. So like for Crunch Fitness, it's a, it's a US brand. And what I'm able to do is take all the goods from them, all their, all their process, the SOP and everything, and adapt it to Quebec. Since I'm— yeah, they gave me the green light to adapt the brand to Quebec.

So to, to put it in French, to, to— I'm doing a lot of marketing because of my acting. Career, my acting skill, the marketing side of things. I've been working a lot in marketing. So that's what I love.

Instead of starting from scratch, I took— like Crunch is a huge brand and great name in the industry. Maybe 95% of what they're doing, adapt it for Quebec. And what I'm saying, it's maybe we're at 110% of the brand. I think we're doing maybe not better, but we're adding a value, a flavor, a Quebec flavor.

And So yeah, instead of starting from scratch, we have all those systems in place and it's a plug and play. Yes. Yeah. And we add a bit.

So I don't know if I would be great only if I was only the franchisee and I can't touch anything. I might miss a little thing, creativity or creativity. Yeah. So they allow you to modify a few things and— Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. Because it's a US brand or a Canadian, the headquarters, it's an American brand, but there's a Canadian franchiser also in Toronto. So, but for Quebec, they have no clue. So we have to— And how did you find this opportunity?

Because you were with Energy Cardio before, but maybe you saw something that said, you know what, maybe we could be better into the industry because there's a lot of competitors. Yeah, a lot of competitors. But in Quebec, honestly, there's not a lot of competition because a lot of big brand, uh, from elsewhere in the world, they don't want to come to Quebec because of the language, because of the laws. We have a lot of special laws for, for fitness, for consumer protection.

There's a lot of rules that are not applied anywhere else in the world. And the language— so for a US brand to come to Quebec, they're like, it's not worth it, it's not worth it. Or they need someone that Oh my God, it's gonna— okay, that we can trust and know the industry and they can adapt and everything. So, but the, the opportunity came, uh, Energy Cardio.

It's been a while. I sold my clubs. I had 3 clubs and I sold them before 2010. I think it was 2008 or something like that because I was doing Stack Fitness.

And when I sold my club, I said, okay, That was fun, but never again. I prefer to build the clubs, sell the equipment. But in 2015, when I sold Stack Fitness to the Taiwanese company, stayed with them 3 years. And in 2019, my partner, Serge Juteau, he was my partner at Stack Fitness, became the— started to work for the franchisor, the Crunch Fitness franchisor, to develop Quebec.

And he called me and he said, "What do you think? " I said, "Okay, Crunch, let me think about it," because they were a customer in the rest of Canada. They were in Ontario and Alberta. And every year when I was doing a trade show in the United States, Los Angeles, San Diego, or Orlando, I was always looking at what's new or going to the city to see some clubs and Crunch.

I was always impressed by Crunch. So it's been 35 years. And what makes it different? What are some of the unique perspectives?

Crunch, it's— they make serious fitness fun. And that's for me, it's exactly what's missing often in the industry. So we take it seriously. We have to get in shape and big guys and girls.

No. Yeah, we can train seriously if we want, if it's our goal or if we're an athlete or whatever. But let's have some fun. So, and for me, it's a slogan.

Do we say slogan in English? It's a slogan, but it's exactly what it is. And the vibe in the club, the high five, welcome to Crunch and we got you. , so it's, it's a beautiful brand.

So there was opportunity, was there. I said, okay, it's, it's missing in the industry in Quebec. There's some brand, they're doing good, they're good business, but a lot of mom-and-pop shop in Quebec. Yes.

Not one or two bigger, bigger chain. Some old chain like Energy Cardio, they went bankrupt. That's sad. A lot of them was more friends, but they evolve at the same pace as other brands.

So, okay, so you would say they didn't evolve as other brands? Like, in which way? What did they miss the mark? It's tough to expand and keep the fun.

Or for Energy Cardio, it was le plaisir de s'entraîner. It was not fun, but it was— yeah, I don't know. I don't want to go there too much. It's okay.

It's okay. But I ask you the question because sometimes, like, we have the example of— what was the company that we used to go and rent DVDs? Yeah, exactly. That's the perfect example.

When people say to me, oh, you're opening because we're going to open— we say shitload of clubs, a ton of clubs. Now we're going to open a lot of clubs, a lot of Crunch in Quebec. Do you have a number in mind? Oh yeah, it's 40.

40. Yeah. So we're going to open many, many clubs and people are saying to me, are you crazy? And there's a lot of competition.

I said, no, what I explained to you a few minutes ago, there's not a lot of competition and And people say, oh, but Energy Cardio, they went bankrupt, or the clubs I see, they're closing and stuff like that. I say, okay, yes, we're doing fitness, they're doing fitness, but it's like Blockbuster Video. Yeah, they were renting movie, and Netflix, they're renting movie, but are they the same kind of company? It's not the same kind of company.

One did evolve in— it's 2024, so that's my example. Yeah, I'm always talking about Blockbuster Video and Netflix. So for For me, Crunch, it's Netflix. Yeah, the Netflix of fitness.

Yeah, it's not virtual. It's not digital, but it's different. Yes, it's fitness, but the vibe is different. The community that I was so impressed— Building a community.

Building a community. We hear that a lot, but it's real. It's real at Crunch. Like the first club we opened in 2020, 2 weeks before the pandemic, that was the first Crunch in Quebec.

We opened. Yeah, that was— not a disaster, but that was tough. And it was all about the slogan where, yeah, community, diverse community, or nurturer, no judgment. Crunch is really the no judgment company.

Everybody's welcome. Yeah, no limits. You come as you are and that's it. They were all nice slogans on paper, on the wall and everything, but the way we treat people, crunchers, customers, members.

It's not customers, it's members. Yeah, it's our crunchers. Les crunchers en français. And so the way we— the vibe in the club, the way we treat our staff and the staff treat our members, the slogan became real.

So in Boisbriand, the first one we opened, we have people over 80 years old training. We kids at 16 years old. We start at 16 when the parents sign. But, uh, and we have everybody in the— in the— yeah, in between.

Yeah, in between. Yeah, exactly, in between. And we have, uh, people who want to lose weight, people who want to gain weight, people out of shape, people bodybuilder. We have— that's where I'm saying, yeah, we make serious fitness fun.

So we, we don't take ourselves seriously, uh, the owner and the staff and the member, the they're having fun, but they can train hard if they want to train hard. So it's really unique. I don't want to give the recipe, but— No, of course, that's your special sauce. Yeah, yeah.

But that's very good. I'm very impressed with how, especially after the pandemic, because that was a big hit. Maybe you even wonder like, what am I doing? Should we just close this whole thing down?

I don't know what's going on through your mind, but how did you— because now it becomes a question of it's not just the SOPs now, it becomes a question of the mindset. How do you walk through this unforeseen— because we didn't know this was going to happen. No, no, we had no clue. And for how much time?

And when we shut down after 2 weeks, we were just opening, everybody was excited, and boom, we shut down. Okay, for what, 2, 3 days, 4 days, 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 months? We shut down. In fact, like, the club will be 5 years in February.

But we were closed more than 1 year. During that time, 4 times I think we were open and the government was saying, okay, you can open the doors next Monday. We were like Friday, next Monday. Okay, but we have to start again, rehire people.

That was crazy. And customers were very, okay, we want to train. We already paid. Yeah, exactly.

But Crunch, they were good. The head office, everybody in the United States, the headquarters of Crunch. Everybody in the industry was saying, okay, we're done. No, fitness won't exist anymore like before with the pandemic because it affected everybody.

Yeah. And everybody was really crying in, in the corner. And Crunch were— they weren't like— after 2 or 3 weeks, they had a protocol in place for when we're gonna open back. There were— and they made big investment on developing and they did.

Yeah, they did. When all the industry was contracting. Yeah. Okay.

That's very interesting. So while everybody's crying in the corner like, this is over, they took that opportunity to like reinvest and strategize and regroup. Exactly. And it's the number one chain in the United States, the fastest growing chain in the world.

So I guess that played give you the security or the peace of mind to say, okay, if the head office sees it this way, yeah, we have to hold strong. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

And with the experience, you say, okay, I was confident that we had a great product in our hands and just have to work hard. And how important would you say— people talk about mindset all the time. You know, it becomes a cliché, you know, mindset. Yeah, it's 80% mindset.

20% strategy. Yeah, that's what they say. Yeah. Would you say that it's true in business in general?

For me, it's all about, uh, it's more about the details. I don't know, it's the way I work. I want to make sure that all the details are taken care of. It's not— maybe it's the mindset to focus on details, but I don't know how to explain that.

Yeah. But how important, like, would you say it's very important? Is it in business? Because when things that, like, for example, the pandemic happened, some, it crushed some people, but others, you know, came out victors.

Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. It's, you need to trust your instinct and believe. Yeah, believe in what you're doing, in your capacity. I think it's the key.

So yeah, maybe that's the mind you need to have. Yeah, a good mindset. Yeah, for sure. To go through.

Yeah. To go through the daily challenge of doing business. It's a daily challenge opening a club. It's opening big clubs like we just did in Quartier d'Istran in Brossard.

It's huge. Right now we're opening 2 clubs at the same time. So that's a different challenge. What are some of the challenges that you faced with D'Istran?

With D'Istran, it would be easier because it was our second crunch. So all the systems were— we knew more than 4 years ago. Yeah, but since the company evolved so much in 4 years with the pandemic, and my feeling was, okay, we're starting from scratch again. Oh really?

So almost, not really, but yeah, we had so a lot of challenge in construction, a challenge the service. That's what I find is the toughest part of my job is I'm doing a lot I have to buy equipment from this one. We need a service or installer for this. And the service in the industry, not the fitness industry, but the service almost everywhere, it's tough.

It's company, they don't call back. I have to send it. You send a request and you have to put yourself in CC to make sure you're going to follow up. So it's tough.

Yeah. So basically you're saying when you reach out, like, people were not fast enough to respond back to you. It's— yeah, exactly. And so it's not a— it was easier a few years ago.

I think people were more, oh, it's my customer, I'm gonna take care of it. And now it's, uh, okay, if it's— they have too many work, too many, or yeah, yeah, or, or we, we need a guy to do this, uh, I don't have time for this. Okay, okay. But who's the So yeah, yeah, business is tougher.

There's a switch you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah. And to staff, to hire staff, HR, it's tough.

Yeah. Yeah. I think we're maybe we're turning the corner. Is it the right word?

Yeah, that's the right word. Yeah, yeah. I'm feeling it a bit. But wow, last year to hire people was tough.

Yeah. Like to find the trainers or people? Trainers. Yeah.

Instructor, group fitness instructor, trainers, MSR. And who do you look for, like when you're hiring in the hiring process? Like what type of qualities do they need to have or like the vibe? I don't know.

Yeah. For the MSR, the member service representative, it's really, it's all about the energy. The energy. Yeah.

In the interview, I'm not taking care of that. It's Nedzin. Yeah. My wife is taking care of the HR.

More than me, but she asked, I said, okay, you smile, you're, you're laughing. Good. Now you're good. The way you do it now, it's exactly what we need at the front desk.

Okay. Because sometimes they put on a show. Oh, yeah. Exactly.

And then after that is like— But now it's, it's written. So after one week, some, for some staff, we say, okay, it's not working. It's not the energy we're looking for. People go to the gym to feel good.

Yeah. Not feel bad. So you want to have the spirit. Yeah, because Nadine has it.

Oh, yeah, the energy and she's the passion. You meet her, you like, you feel good after, after a conversation with her. Exactly, exactly. But it's exactly— and maybe it's a big reason of our success, but Nadine is a big, big reason.

The brand Crunch, it's all about that. It's exactly that. But she's pushing the envelope very, very far, the way she, she treat people. And customer and the staff.

So she embodies the whole culture of that. Yeah. So I can see like when she's hiring, she's looking for somebody similar with those characteristics. Yeah, exactly.

You come like this, hi, my name is— no, it's not a fit for us. Oh my gosh. So she takes care of the daily operations and then making sure things run smoothly. Yeah.

And how do you keep working with your wife, your spouse? Is there balance? Like, Are you talking about business at 11 PM or like, what do you draw? Yeah, there's two sides of it.

I think that maybe let's start with the bad thing. Yeah, it's tough to separate. We're so involved in our business and it's going so forward or making big steps and the development is very, very quick. So we're opening many clubs at the same time and the expansion is the growth.

Is quick. Yeah. So the workload is, is big. m.

if we have something in our minds. So yeah, it's tough. We try, we do our best and we know it's important. And with our kids also, to let's say at dinner, we don't talk about business.

How many kids do you have? 3. 3 boys. One is not there anymore.

He's older. He's not at home. He's not living at home, but two other boys. And so three boys total.

So, but yeah, so we keep safe, safe space or safe moment. Yeah, we're working hard. So sometimes it's me putting, okay, no, we don't talk business now, but 5 minutes after it's me talking. It's like you told me no business.

So it's, yeah, it's a challenge. It's really a challenge. Two separate things, but at the same time we're working so hard. I think the good part of it is, a good part of it, it's we understand each other.

Yeah. So she understands why I'm, let's say, I'm stressed right now today. Oh, you're stressed? But she's not complaining because I'm sure she knows why I'm stressed.

Or same thing for me with her. So I think it gives us a good understanding. You balance each other out. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think it's 50/50. So it's good and it's bad. We can have the total package.

So that's good. It is a blessing simultaneously. Of course, there are things that, you know, can be challenging, but at the same time, you know, you have somebody that has your back and that really understands and you're going— you're working towards the same goal. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.

Yeah, instead of having coming back at home, oh, why are you coming late? And so what, work? Okay, but that's enough. But you have to be here at 5.

Yeah, exactly. So, but now we're in the same boat, so we know. Exactly. Yeah, so because it's a different type of mindset working on 9 to 5 and operating a business that opens at 5 o'clock.

And emergency situations. Yeah, we have some emergency, always a Sunday or It's always— it's been like 3 weeks in a row. I think we have issues on the weekends. How come?

Why? But it is what it is. It is what it is. Oh my gosh.

And now you're working to open 2 gyms simultaneously. Yeah, almost. Yeah, we're starting the construction. One is started 2 weeks ago.

Crunch. It's a scoop. It's Crunch Boucherville. Yeah.

So we just started 2 weeks ago. We're going to open in early January. And then we have the other one, it's another scoop. Another scoop, people.

Yeah, it's Crunch Anjou. Oh, the Galerie d'Anjou. Yeah, the big— I'm still waiting for the one in Laval. Yeah, we're working on it.

Yeah, we're working, we're working on a few in Laval, in fact, but nothing signed. For sure, I'm a future client. Yeah, good. Boisbriand is not so far, but yeah, it's from here where we are right now, it's It's like 10 minutes from here, 10 to 12 minutes.

Yeah. I'll wait for the one in London. Yeah, we're coming. That's very good.

And then what type of talent, apart from the people that are working, like, who else do you need to, like, surround yourself with? Because as you're growing, you can't be wearing, like, all of these different hats. Like, who are you seeking to, like, bring along to the team to help you expand? The goal is really to grow people.

You know, yeah, that's, that was always my passion in business. Like at Stack Fitness, I started, we were 3, 3 partners at the beginning and, and we hired one person after maybe 2 years after I bought my partners, hired another one. But some people like I kept the company for 12, 13 years and some people were working almost day one till, till the end. So to grow people like Crunch, that's what we're saying to our team.

You can grow in the company with us. So we're looking at passionate people, people that are passionate about fitness, about taking care of people. And a good example, it's our general manager at Zestrand. She was an MSR, Catherine.

Catherine. Yeah, she was an MSR at Boisbriand. Opening the club every morning at 5 o'clock for maybe a year and a half. And the general manager role became available in Boisbriand.

We are— she got promoted to the general manager, did a great job. And after that, she was ready to open her club. Yeah. So we— she came to this town and opened this town with us.

So she's a good example and she wants to grow in the company. So when we're going to have 4 or 5, she might be a general— not general manager, regional manager. So we have the same, another Catherine. She's a group fitness director coordinator, group fitness coordinator.

So she wants to grow in the company. Yeah. You're very fortunate with the Cathrines. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, and we have a Charles, but it's a C, so Charles Fitness. Yeah, he's the fitness manager in each club. We have a fitness manager. So you want to become— so we want people that are passionate and believe in what we're doing.

And yeah, we want to be surrounded by positive people. Yeah. So passionate people. And you're always looking for like people to come in because soon you're going to be opening.

When do you start looking? Like when the gym is fully done? No, like Boucherville, we're doing interviews right now as we speak for— yeah, yeah, because we have the, the— we call it pre-game, pre-sale. So before we open the club, we have, we have a lot of work to do to, to get in the community, to always say that, to spread the word that we're coming.

And yeah. And all of that, is it you? Like, because I know you have some leverage on what you can do here in Quebec, or is it the brand? Oh, we have a good recipe.

We have a playbook. It's the pre-opening playbook and stuff like that. So we take again 95% of it and we adapt. And it's working pretty good.

Oh yeah, it's working. Yeah. That's the beauty of the franchise. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We have the— I think someone said the first convention I went to 2 years ago, each 2 years we have a Crunch Summit and someone was saying it was sending a message to the franchisee that the president of the company said, okay, if you're new in the company or just it's like a quarterback in football. If you join a team, just take the playbook, learn the play. Yeah, do it. When after that you can come and say, okay, maybe we can tweak a bit this display and this place.

So as a franchisee, because some franchisees sometimes, and I know a lot of franchisees in other business or other, or in the industry or just restaurant, but they think they know everything and they want to change it. They want to be a franchisee, but they, they They want to apply their own rule. So it doesn't— so just play the play, if I can say, play the play. And yeah, yeah, some employees sometimes have that tendency as well.

They come in and they want to change everything. Yeah, exactly. Employees is the same thing. Yeah, they come, okay, no, I'm not going to say this, I'm not going to do this, this, this.

Why? So we have to explain why. And so on. But there's a reason.

Yes, exactly. Then you can make your suggestions and But it's exactly the same. You say employee, but franchisee, I'm sure to be a franchisor. Oh boy, it's not so easy.

Yeah. So what do you see in the next 5 years? I don't know if we could go that far, maybe in 3 years. I don't know.

What do you see? Opening clubs after clubs. Because you said 40, but do you have a date? We want to open 3 to 4 per year.

3 to 4 per year. So yeah, and we just got started. The pandemic stopped us, like at this point, at Quartier D'Estran, it took almost 4 years, the negotiation for the lease with the landlord. They were not ready.

And now it's a nice place. It is very nice. So now the phone is ringing. Oh my God.

Okay, Crunch at this time, they're doing good. Okay, maybe. Oh, you mean like other landlords? Yeah, other landlords.

So it's getting and Boucherville, it's a nice place. It's the same landlord as Boisbriand. So it's near the IKEA in Boucherville. IKEA.

IKEA. IKEA. And the Galeries d'Anjou, it's a huge— That's the new mall. The new mall.

Yeah, the big mall, Galeries d'Anjou. Yeah. So it's a big mall. It's a huge club we're building.

It's going to be beautiful. So really nice. Yeah. Landlords.

So now the landlords are saying, hey, Karim, you know, Yeah. Come to our place because before you had to do the work to close them. Yeah, exactly. Now they are coming more and more and they know about Crunch in the United States.

We're going to be at 500 Crunch in the world. That's a lot. So we're at, I think, 470 right now. Okay.

They open in the United States almost once a week. There's a club opening. Wow. A Crunch opening.

So it's a huge market. Yeah, it's huge. Yeah, the market, it's huge and it's a huge brand. So yes, exactly.

Yeah. I'm happy for you. Very nice. And wearing all these different hats in business, how do you stay sane and not like because your stress level, because maybe sometimes you have bad news, stress level could go really high, burnout could happen.

How do you stay motivated and sane? Yeah, but let's make sure we're having fun. So that's what— yeah, I need to have fun. Yeah.

So fun with the people, fun with the task. It's not always fun. There are some tasks of, oh shit, I have to do this today. Or let's start with the toughest one in the morning and after that let's have some fun.

So yeah, but for me it's really to have fun, to focus on the goal, focus on the goal, or maybe not the goal because I don't have precise goal. Do we say precise? Yeah. An objective.

I don't have a precise goal, but just to enjoy the ride. Enjoy the journey. Yeah. Enjoy the journey.

Yeah. Maybe it's better to say, yeah, enjoy the journey instead of having a goal. I always believe in if you do the right things, if you work hard and you do the right things, good things happen. Yeah.

And all the businesses I've been in, It's always— it's exactly like the Armada, the junior hockey team right now. They went through some tough years with the pandemic, a little bit before that. There's a lot of competition, not hockey-wise, but a lot of competition for the dollar. Le dollar, loisirs.

People have to choose where they spend their money. Yeah, yeah. So there's other hockey teams like the Rocket Laval. But there's other things to do, go to the movie theater and stuff like that.

So with your kid, life goes fast and people have to choose. But they went through some tough moments. The game experience was not so good. The team on the ice was not very good also.

So they went really deep, let's say. And but I really believe like for the last 2 years we're doing all the right things. We're trying. We think it's the right thing.

Anyway, we have to trust our instinct, but We're working hard. We're looking at every detail, building the game experience, the fan experience. The team on the ice is getting better and better. The organization— The confidence is getting— Confidence that we're in a good cycle.

Junior hockey, it cycles also because they're juniors, so 16 to 20. But after that, you can't keep them. Keep them anymore. Yeah, you have to have other players.

So if we're doing the right thing, working hard, people will come back, I'm sure. And we're seeing it in the last year or so, one by one. I'm always saying, okay, each game we have new people. Okay, we have 2,000 today.

It's not enough, 2,000, but oh, it's 10 more than 2 weeks ago. And so if you do the right thing, yeah, and you enjoy the ride. Yeah. The question was, are you— But what fun do you have?

Like, what do you do as activities that you like? Doing sport. I don't know. Yeah, sport.

Yeah, yeah. I play hockey. I love to— yeah, fun activities with my kids, playing soccer with my kids. They're good soccer players now.

They are better than me and stuff. But go to the park and play soccer. Yeah, voyager. Travel.

Travel. Yeah. Travel. We've done quite some nice travel.

Less the last 4 years, but we have less time. But acting also for me. So sometimes, yeah, in the last 2 years I've been playing in a show in French, in Défendable. I'm doing a lawyer.

Yeah. So that was fun. That was like very— You play some tough characters. Yeah.

That's L'Enseignant. L'Enseignant was tough. The lawyer in Défendable is a good lawyer. Yeah, he's a good one.

So it's tough because you have to— To get into character and do it. Yeah, but it's a nice role. It's a nice performance. It's very athletic to be a lawyer and blah, blah, blah.

It's fun. Yeah, I've been playing some tough roles and I'm not like that at all. But yeah, it's mostly well-known for L'Insecte. Yeah, yeah.

Ladouceur, he was an alcoholic and a tough guy at the beginning. But after that, I'm not nice with women and everything. But after it's— I've been playing that show for early, the early 2000s until 2016, I think. So every 2 years we had a series.

Yeah, 10 episodes. And but at the beginning, yeah, it was really a weird guy. Very good actor. Yeah.

But at the end, he was very nice. Like he was. Yeah. Wife, baby, and a leader in the team, older.

That's it. Yeah. Oh, that's very good. And for— what advice would you give entrepreneurs that they feel a little bit of guilt even to step away and take a break from the business because they're so in it sometimes?

They're, you know, trying to fix problems or trying to see what opportunities lie ahead. But by being so focused on it, sometimes you just lose sight but then they feel guilt just to take a little break or a little vacation, go have some fun. How would, what, I don't know, what advice could you just? It's a cliché, but it goes so fast.

Life goes so fast. You have to take those moments. Not sure that the French is, the English is clear right now, but yeah, you have, it's really a cliché, like when you have a kid and people say, oh, enjoy because it will be, but it's true. All clichés, But it's true.

So you have to take those moments and we're having fun, Nadine and myself, often in my Google, I don't know if it's Microsoft something or on a daily basis I get the souvenir, the picture and all that stuff. Oh yeah, we had good time. So we have pictures and I'm sending text messages every day to all the kids. Sometimes just to Nadine, it's her and me on vacation.

With the kids, I sent to the kids, okay, or laughing. See, you said you didn't have a good time. This is the proof. Yeah, that's it.

No, but it's fun to see where we're coming from and everything that happened over the last 15 years, let's say. So it's, yeah, you have to take those times, time off, time to breathe and to reflect and to come back even more focused. I think the key in business, it's to believe in what you're doing. Because not everybody, but a lot of people around you will say, no, no, no, you should do that.

Or, but if it's not going to work out, it's not going to work. Or, oh, it's a bad idea. So yes, you have to listen. Yes, you have to find some mentors.

But at the end of the day, it's your life and do your best and believe in what you're doing. Stay focused. Look at every detail. And have fun.

Yeah. So this would be— that sounds like a nice wrapping up message. Maybe. You tell me.

Because that was going to be my next question. If you want somebody, like, if you want people listening to take one, I don't know, golden message out of the conversation, what would it be? Wow. I think maybe you just gave it, but I don't know.

Yeah. Maybe I gave it, but I think I've talked about it, but it's really, again, We don't want to be— we want to give cliché, but it's trust your instinct. You're the person that— it's your project. Trust, listen to other people, but trust at the end of the day.

Trust what you feel, what you believe, what you— and do it. So you can get lost so quick with that. There's a lot of noise, and now with social media and everything, there's even more. Oh, they're doing this, those.

Then all Trust. Yeah, take the time to sit with yourself. Yeah. And then listen to your instinct, because sometimes it can be overdrawn with all the noise.

Yeah. And final thoughts, like I said earlier, enjoy the moment, enjoy, enjoy the challenge, embrace the challenge, because that's how you grow. Because the, the Karim 10 years ago is not the same person. No, not at all.

It's different. It's different. Yeah, it's different. 0.

0, I guess. But that's what it's about in life, you know, to keep people— well, it is a cliché. People keep saying that you're competing with yourself, you know, the person you were yesterday. But when you look at life, it is kind of true.

That's how we get better, you know, see what you— the mistakes you made, learn from them, and Yeah, because we're going to make mistakes, a lot of it. Oh yeah, no, the more we do, the more we mistake. Yeah, if you do not— if you don't take chance, if you don't, you're not gonna make any mistake. If you stay in your kitchen and you don't move and you stay at the table, you understand why?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even with my kids, I'm telling them it's okay to make mistakes. Yeah, the important thing is to learn from it, but it's okay. That's how you learn.

There are some mistakes we don't want them to make, but still it's okay, like, to start learning. Because sometimes at school, like, we're taught not to make mistakes. You know, you make a mistake, oh my God, it's a big deal. But I'm slightly like telling them it's okay to make mistake.

Let's just learn why you made the mistake and how not to repeat it. Yeah, that's very good. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting at a young age to tell them that. Yeah. And you've been— you're one of our clients for a while now. Yeah.

And what I wanted to know is that what are some of the things that we've done? How have we supported your team? And what do you like about the services that we offer you? I know we're not perfect, but— You're not perfect, but you're very good.

You're very good. You're growing with us. The goal is to— Yeah. For me, it's really, I want to replicate on each club.

So the goal is, okay, we've just done together this strong Now, Boucherville, it's going to be easy. Let's make a phone call. Okay, you know what we want and we're all on the same page and boom, we can replicate. And after that, I'll join elsewhere.

So, and what I like about it, it's really the service and the focus on details, the app you're having, the communication, the way you do, you communicate with us, your customer. It's really good. It's something that we don't see often. No?

No. Because you just mentioned that earlier. Yeah. So communication is a big factor.

Yes. And trying to be better, always trying to be better. And it's something that we appreciate as a customer and we feel the support. That's what we want at the end of the day.

We want to make sure, okay, today it's not It's not clean today, but we have your support and you're going to try to fix it and you're going to put process in place. That's the way. Yeah. So we like, yeah, we like working with you and your company.

Thank you. And we like working with you too. Nazin is fantastic. Yeah.

Very beautiful human being. I mean, I love her. Talking to her, it's like, you're very fortunate, both of you, to have found each other. Oh yeah, oh yeah, we know, we know, we appreciate that.

No, but that's true. I know I'm lucky and she said she's lucky. So yeah, she is, she is as well. So it's something that people would call a power couple.

Yeah, maybe. Yes, it is. Yeah. So it's something to— you don't see that often, to cherish.

And you guys are gonna go far with— already we see 40 gyms you're going to open. And we have good partners also. I have 3 partners. Serge, Serge Juteau, who's been in the fitness industry for a while, is a bit older than me, and he's a— he was my partner at Stack Fitness for a few years.

And Pierre Gendron also is a great— he's a— he might be a good guest for you. Yeah, Pierre Gendron is a serial entrepreneur. —so in a lot of construction, un immobilier, how we say that? Say the full sentence.

Beaucoup dans l'immobilier. And the real estate. Real estate, yeah, a lot of real estate. Sporting goods with Rousseau Sport.

He got like 8 huge stores in Quebec. It's good to surround yourself with great partners. Yeah, they challenge me and I challenge them. And he's one of the owners of the hockey club, junior Armada in Blainville-Boisbriand.

And I have also Cédric Morissette. He's the president of Lacordée. It's a retail store for Plénaire, magazine Plénaire. Yeah, Lacordée.

So Cédric Morissette, good, great guy also. He's the president of that company. Big company. Always need people to challenge you to be a better version of yourself.

A great, a solid team. A solid team. Yeah, exactly. I would say strong, but that's good too.

Yeah, we're a solid team and it's— and we're there for the— bring the industry in Quebec at a higher level. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing.

Amazing. And to conclude, what do you like? I don't know. Do you have any books you like to read that you could say, this is my favorite book?

That sounds not good because I'm not reading a lot because when I— because I'm working very, very late. Read and very early. And when I read, I'm so passionate about reading, uh, I don't stop. So take the book, you have to finish.

Yeah, yeah. It's so— it's— I've been, I've been reading. Last year I was doing a program, a fitness program, like 75 Days, Hard 75, and you had to read 10 pages per day book. So I've read a couple of good books at that time and 10 pages per day.

So that was— I was stopping and say it's 10 pages, often in the morning, just 10 pages. My 10 pages are done. Okay, so I fell in love again with reading, but I didn't read much since then. But the one was— it's often on the list, not bad habits, but small habits.

I don't recall. It's all about habits. Habits, yeah. But if you change little habits, little things, it's a huge impact at the end.

The compound effect of changing incrementally. Yeah, exactly. So it was a— was it small app? I don't recall.

But if you do Habits on Google, it's book, it's coming. Yeah, yeah. And last question is, what are some of the things you like about our city or Montreal, since the podcast is named the Montreal. So I usually ask, what do people like about the city of Montreal?

Even if you live in the South Shore. I live in the South Shore, but I was living in Montreal for a while. I like the multicultural of the city, the restaurant, restaurant, really. Sports.

I like to go see the CF Montreal, the different— yeah, the vibe, the cultural vibe of the city is great. I don't like the traffic, but the rest, the rest is good. So yeah, yeah, I'm proud. So when I was a guy from Montreal, because you realize that when you do business with American people or people from elsewhere in the world, when they come to Montreal with Stack Fitness, I had a lot of customers or vendors coming from Taiwan or United States coming in, England, UK.

And when they come to Montreal, more Americans they feel like they're in France or— Oh yeah. Yeah. So you go in Old Montreal, go eat in good restaurant and so proud of the city. Yeah.

A lot of people appreciate Montreal. They love it. They come, okay, it's a party place, food is good and everything. So yeah, it's a nice city to live in.

Yeah. South Shore is good also. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, Gary, it was a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you for sharing your journey and what you what you're passionate about, your plans for the future, and maybe until next time we'll see you again. Okay, thank you very much, it was fun. Thank you.