Paolo Catania

The full conversation with Paolo Catania, transcribed. Lightly formatted for reading.

How would you define your style of leadership? If I can add value to you, that's where I come into your life. What are some of the misconceptions most people have about business and what is the reality of it? The key is asking questions.

Be honest and ask for help. Be honest and, uh, with myself and start this whole train of communicating with people and asking them their opinions. And if there was one thing you would change, let's say, in your business, things that you've done that you would change in the community on the way things are, what would you change? Had the power to Welcome to the Montreal Entrepreneur Podcast, Paulo.

Thank you for having me. You're welcome. Yes, it's been a while. I wanted to have you, and I feel like I already know you, but same here.

I'm sure there's a lot to discover. Well, look, I'm here for that, and if it can help anybody, I'd love— that's what we do. Please tell us, what do you do? What do we do?

Well, we do many things. I mean, okay, that's great. Let's get into entrepreneurs. So, uh, you know, we, uh, we develop our own real estate.

We, we have old age homes, we have residential projects. We— so we— that's stuff that we've been doing for years and years. Uh, recently what's taken most of our time has been developing, uh, Flexible Office Spaces with MetSpace. I like the name flexible, the term.

Yeah, well, it is flexible because, you know, they were— it's co-working, you want to— but it's more flexible. People just want the flexibility to be able to choose and do what they wish. So, so my wife and I have been running that business now for— it's going to be 10 years. 10 years.

10 years coming up soon. So that's our main business right now. We have— we also do some coaching as well, so we help entrepreneurs develop their businesses. Is there a particular niche?

Like, uh, we focus on online. So what we do is we teach them how to develop and grow extra revenues using online platforms. We ambassadors of different brands, but we, that we use it because it's a very inexpensive way to develop yourself as an entrepreneur. The biggest fear of entrepreneurs is what?

The cost, right? If I have to open up a restaurant, I want to open up a franchise, you're looking at $300,000, $400,000, $500,000 just to start. I know, right? You haven't covered your staff costs, you haven't covered your— you haven't even paid yourself.

The marketing, the branding. The marketing, the branding. So you're looking at loans and mortgages on your home. So what we do is we tell people, stay where you are.

And this is something we discovered, honestly, just to give you a little back date on that. Yeah, go ahead. It's something we discovered during COVID we met some amazing people and they've been doing this for years, teaching people. And what we realized is that the biggest fear was the cost.

And when you speak to people, that's the biggest fear. So these people are teaching people how to start. Just keep your job. Don't let go of your job.

Build an extra revenue asset on the side that can help you then eventually have the choice. Do you like your job? Do you not like your job? Do you want to do other things in life?

So, so, uh, Katerina and I have just like fallen in love with this whole model. Oh yeah, so that's really, really cool. Um, and the Flex Space, man, this is like where all entrepreneurs start. So, you know, the ones that do need a corporate address now, they're incorporated, that's the next level, that's the next level, right?

Then they want to meet their clients. Where do they meet them? You know, they're going to go to Tim Hortons, or you're going to meet them in a professional atmosphere. I mean, and most flex spaces are pretty well adapted these days.

I'm not going to just— I'll say a lot of them are getting into the groove of things, you know, being more professional, clean, having good coffee, good service. You know, that's the main focus for us, and making the entrepreneur feel like he's got it all. Like he's— when his clients come in, they need to feel like Wow, this guy is like on the ball. He's in the right place.

The receptionist, like our boutique leader, receives the client as if it was her own, offers them a coffee or a comfortable place to just sit or to the boardroom and all the services that go around that so that our new entrepreneurs or even our experienced entrepreneurs feel like they're taken care of. And that's been the key with the flex space. And I see you a lot on social media with promoting actually Medspace, right? Yes, yes, promoting.

I mean, we talk— I mean, that's my daughter, by the way, that does our social media, Mika. She's awesome. She's doing a really great job. Her and Amira do a beautiful job with the social media.

But it's more just informing. So I don't want to come off— that was a thing I've been learning about social media and marketing. I don't come off too salesy. And you want to be informative and just tell people what it really is instead of like, oh, come here, 2-for-1 special.

I just can't stand— no, you don't do that. I can't lie, I don't like that. I think what you're saying— well, we're all selling something, even ourselves or our husbands or kids or clients. But the way you come out from the video is it's a family thing, it's a community.

Look, we're having cake together on, I don't know, on a Friday. We have activities. So I think that it creates an atmosphere that people maybe want to be part of. I agree.

I agree. But there's more, I'm sure. Yeah, go ahead. But I agree completely.

And it's exactly that, right? We used to do bigger things like big barbecues. We still do certain dinners and lunches, but the breakfast or the cake or just sitting around the lounge has gotten us more individuals involved with individuals. So people connect more, they're more at ease.

And I mean, you walk into some, like, They didn't know each other, and all of a sudden I hear they're golfing together. Who's playing tennis together? Who's going to the gym? Um, doing business, obviously.

I mean, they're there for that. Um, and that's just happening organically. Well, that's just because you gave them, uh, the, the opportunity and the freedom to be able to discover that. Not pushing, not doing anything, just giving them that opportunity to connect.

And that's the key, right? That's the whole key to any business. I mean, look at yourself, right? We connected because I saw the videos.

I was like, oh, wow. Then Luciano. And then I'm like, okay, I got to connect with her, right? And it's what it is.

You never said, hey, come and do a podcast. I don't know, I'll give you a deal or something. No, it's just informing and informing and informing. And then people get attracted to that and want to be around that type of person.

And people. So connecting is very important in business, in any business. It's everything. I've been doing videos lately on that.

It's from John Maxwell, one of the books that I've been— I'm an ambassador of— is, uh, many people communicate but few connect. Everybody communicates but few connect. That's the name. Sorry, I didn't have the title by heart, but it's the key.

You know, people talk. We can talk, but do we really connect? Are we really getting somewhere? But how would you define that?

How would you define to connect? How would you define that? It's really listening, asking questions. Yes, you got to speak, right?

You got to talk, because if you don't talk, you're not going to get anywhere. But are you listening to the person? Are you asking questions or are you just telling them? What's going on.

And you're, for example, in a B2B scenario, that would be like connect, speaking with the potential client, asking them questions. And the key is asking questions. The best— I've, I don't know which book it was, I think it was Never Split the Difference, awesome book, is The Art of Negotiation. I'm sure you've read that.

Yeah, it's amazing. And they're talking about, you know, salesmen, you don't sell There's no selling. It's just asking the right questions. It's just being there and listening and asking the right questions, because the person is already coming in to buy a car.

They don't care. It's not the color. They saw the color, they love the car. But what does the person really need?

What are they looking for? You know, how could you help them and, and connect, create that, that relationship where The client's almost like, I have to buy the car off Kathy. She's the person, like, oh my God, they understand me, they know what I want. And it's authentic.

It has to come off, it has to be authentic. It can't be a pitch. Is that something from within? Is that a skill?

Like, let's say you're— it's a skill that you develop because it's not everybody that has it naturally. Yes. All right, I have a hard time. See, I have to stop myself from talking sometimes.

You notice it, right? Like, I still do it because I love to jump in and start talking. So it's a skill you develop. It's— you just have to practice it.

You could ask my family, my kids, everybody. Sometimes I just start talking and they're like, does he ever shut up? Is he gonna let us talk? So trust me, it's a skill.

I think you just got to keep on practicing and developing. So then that is the connecting part. I know that you went to Michigan, uh, yes, recently, and I saw video that you posted and you, you spoke about, uh, the different speakers that were there. Some had different energy, and then the— you talk about how they make you feel as, as you are in the audience.

Can you elaborate on that? So how do they make you feel? That's the whole key, right? Some speakers come out and they're monotone and they're just talking and it's boring, and after half an hour you're like about to fall asleep.

Then there's the communicator who comes out and is extravagant, right? We had some guys that came on, they were just like, rah! And they're just— it's so— then you either like that aggressive or you don't like the aggressive. So the aggressive is there to wake you up and like to shake you up and, um, and, and get you like, like jumping on your chair, like a, like a Tony Robbins style, right?

Those, like, those guys will make you— within 5 seconds you're on your chair and you're like And you're like, I'm never going to get on my chair. I'm never going to scream. And like 10 seconds later, you're on your chair and you're screaming and you're like, how the hell this happened to me? Why did I get here?

And it happened to us. We went to Tony Robbins a few years back and it was so funny because I'm like, no, that's not going to happen to me. 5 minutes later, I'm on a chair and I'm like, yeah. Because then everybody around you is doing the same thing.

The energy is there. Did he necessarily connect with you? Not necessarily, but it's the energy that he created and that created that roar. So then there's the speaker that does come out and then it's like as if he's speaking to you, right?

And it's as if he's asking you a question. He just takes that time. And those are the communicators I love the most. There's not many that have that art to a T.

I'll give— John Maxwell has that. I mean, he's a great communicator. He just knows. It's as if he's talking to you, you know.

And there's many speakers that way, but not many anymore because a lot are just trying to have that roar and that aggressive and do this. And, uh, you know, it's like they're lecturing. Yeah, kick ass. And instead of like— I like the other— that was the Michigan message was there was a few guys that just knew how to connect with people and inspire you and say, you know, I want to be like that.

I want to be more— a better man. I want to be a better dad. I want to be a better entrepreneur, a better husband, a better friend, you know. So in a business setting, so this was the speaker, like, yes, you have to be able to speak.

But let's say a business owner, like the founder. So now, yes, they have— we talked about connection. They have to be able to connect with whoever that they're speaking with to convert, right? So now they have to be able to communicate as well.

So then communication, connection, and then conversion. Would you say that? Yes, I think it— that happens naturally, right? But you have to go for the sale.

Yes, you have to go for the conversion. I mean, if you don't— so you can talk and connect as much as you want, but if you don't go for the sale or if you don't go for something, it's never going to happen. Yeah. So yes, you need the conversion side, which is the hardest part for everybody, right?

' So now you put yourself in a position where you're asking for something, whereas what if the conversation would just flow into naturally talking about the item or whatever, the car that's for sale, right? And just then just flowing into it and say, 'So what do you think? ' Like, so changing the subjects, whether the person comes back with an offer or they come back with something instead of you putting yourself in a position of having to— On a daily basis, how do you practice that? Let's say in your business, or what do you see other entrepreneurs, uh, I know you're in different type of businesses.

Yeah, there's two different businesses, right? So real estate is, it depending what you're dealing with. If you're dealing with the landlords and I'm negotiating to open up a new med space, it's a very different conversation with a real estate broker, is a very different conversation. With my members or our tenants or Met Spacers, we call.

And that's a different conversation. So we have like 15 conversations going on. Then imagine the team, right, that's, that's there. And you want them— so on a daily, it's like you want them to make the client be right because that's what the golden rule is.

But then it's my team. And I want my clients or members or medspacers to respect my team because I know they're giving their 100% to them. So how do you find that balance? So the communication is, is a daily juggle.

Yes. And we don't get it right every single day. The importance is, is never to burn a bridge, even if you made a mistake, or call it a mistake, or maybe it's, uh, even if you did something that bit your tongue. How bad?

So think more before speaking because you can always come back if you thought about it and you don't just blurt things out. You don't have all the answers, right? You don't like, and you just know what I just do, which happens. So don't burn bridges and things.

Just don't burn the bridge. Don't burn the bridge. Leave it open if you're not sure. Think.

Don't burn the bridge. I've burned some bridges in my life and it sucks because then you got to come back and you're backpedaling and it's just hard, right? It's harder. It's harder.

So think more. Take a step back even on your day-to-day. Take 10 seconds and just, okay. And at your level in business, you've been in business for how long would you say?

My God, my entire life. You know, when I graduated from high school, I went to college and I wasn't a fan of school. So my dad— I had a family business at the time. My dad was very old school and was like, hey, listen, if you're not going to school, you're coming to work.

So for me, it was like straight to work. And then I went back to school later as an adult. I had the university classes and I did all kinds of certificates because I felt like I needed it, and I'm like, oh, man, why did I miss out on all that? But I've been in business since the age of 19.

19. And then from 19 up until now, do you sometimes have that feeling that you're still figuring things out, or do you feel like you have it all pretty much figured out? No, far from. Are you kidding me?

The day we have everything figured out, it's over. Just wait for your business to just decline. Everything declines. Your marriage is going to decline.

Your friendships are going to decline. Yourself as a person, I mean, your self-image, the way you are, you have nothing figured out, man. F, that's for sure. And what's the hardest lesson that you've learned from the past that had a big impact on you today?

Thinking that I had it all. I've been there before. So, um, so I, I, uh, before MedSpace began and all these adventures of today, uh, I was in a family business and, um, and, and, um, I thought I was at the top of my game and, and I was. I was very, very successful.

We had a beautiful business and 200 employees and it was like awesome, was really fun and But I got lost in all that, and that was all that mattered to me. What mattered? The business. Business.

And I let go of the whole connection thing. Was just the business and growing. Yeah. Becoming huge.

So getting lost in that, eventually it kind of tore me down and tore down the business as well. So getting lost, meaning you didn't know who you were? No, I knew exactly who I was. I knew exactly who I thought I was, and I was like, I was at the top and I knew all the answers and I had— and there was nobody else that could help me.

Like, it was— you get lost in that direction. So, so that answers that question for you to say, are you ever going to get there? No, no, you'll never— not for me. Never again will I let myself or allow myself to even think that.

So probably many entrepreneurs fall into that same mentality. Maybe they reach a certain, I don't know, amount of success in their life and they feel like they're on top of it. So the lesson would be to watch out. So that, like, what would you say, like, to be careful about?

Um, watch out. Keep your eyes open. Listen to people. Um, surround yourself with people who love you, yes, but they're not all yes people.

Yeah. You need a few people that are there that care for you, that have your back, but they're ready to tell you the truth. They're not afraid of you. The close friends or family members, even external people.

Sometimes family members will just tell you things because they love you and out of fear and they might not understand business. True. So how can they help you? So that's one thing that's very important I learned is speak to people who've done it before.

Like, don't go for the opinion of someone who's never run a business when you're talking about business. If they're a great dad or a great mom and you're having problems at home, now those are the right people to speak to. Yeah, but if we're talking about our business now Well, you want someone that's been there before, not someone who's dreamt of it but never did anything. You don't want that person to give you business advice, right?

So have people around you that can keep you grounded. And so coaching is important, basically. Yes, it's everything. Yeah, it's having mentors, it's having coaches and mentors in different facets, right?

It's not just one mentor. I mean, there's mentors that you'll look up to as as a person, you know, athletes, maybe for your physique, business moguls that you look up to for business, relationships. You say, oh my God, look at them, right? They say, ah, they're amazing.

Why can't we be more like them? Not totally, but because they'll surprise you too. So just take— yeah, take what you want that helps, that helps you, but that they have success in. Yeah.

And were there times that in your life you felt like everything was going wrong, like everything is against you? I don't know, there's a month or the year. Yeah. How do you overcome that?

Or how did you overcome things like that? I think there's always going to be moments where you'll feel like that. Some will be worse and some will be lighter, but there will always be. If you're growing if you're going somewhere in life, it's inevitable.

You're going to fail. You're going to feel like a failure. It's going to hurt. The important thing is, is what do you do next?

If you're surrounded with all these people, like we said, if you set yourself up properly, the failure, you got to live it, take it, absorb it, accept it, because it's important for you to accept.. But now once you've done that, what's next? What are you doing now? You're going to go see one of your mentors, coaches.

Let's go. Let's take some action and move forward. Once you've done your morning, okay, I lost this. It's not going well.

Go over that 24 hours, do it, no problem. But now what's next? What are we doing in your circle? Do you feel like most people, do they have mentors or no?

Because when do you know when to get it? Like, at what stage the entrepreneur says, okay, you know what, now is the time in my business that I need to go and seek mentors? Okay. I had this conversation with a, with a, a 40-year-old young man, young man, because I want to say young man because our 40s is not old anymore.

He was a potential soccer player, a professional soccer player in France, actually. And I was talking to him about the coaching with the business, and he's like— I said— so he asked me the question, he goes, why do I need a coach? I said, why do you need a coach? I said, when you first started, the first day you kicked the soccer ball, how old were you?

He goes, I was around 5, 6 years old. Who taught you how to kick a soccer ball? It was my older brother. Okay.

I go, once you learned how to kick the soccer ball, who taught you how to pass the ball? He goes, was my dad. I said, then you joined the soccer team? He's like, yeah.

I go, who taught you how to do drills? It was the coach. I go, in your entire life, you played all the way to pro, and you're asking me when is it time to have a coach? He says, I did that all on my own.

That was his answer. So you need a coach your whole life. The only thing is you need to know that. You need to understand that coaching started a long time ago, and you need to be humble enough to say, my mom or my dad or my sibling or my grandmother started coaching me a long time ago.

Once we understand that, I think that culture is like, block that out. We've been being coached since we were children. We shouldn't be waiting till now. And trust me, I'm talking from experience because I didn't know that then.

And I wish I could just teach that today to a generation where they say, you're already being coached, appreciate it, take it in. Because I still get questions from people who come to me and say, hey, I'm just coming to ask you the question. I don't really need your— they're coming with a question but a retraction. It's like, your opinion is not that important.

I'm like, so then why are you coming and see me? If you don't need my answer, then don't come and see me. If you want me to be humble and give you the right advice, if I can, then you got to come with an open heart too. Not just because if I tell you something you don't like, then it's not good.

Sometimes this is what will happen. You can ask for the question and the answers might not be the one you wanted because the person has been there and done that. Yes. So then they know a bit better.

But some people are against that. They say if you have an idea, just try it on your own first before you go and ask. For help. Nothing wrong with that.

I mean, hey, listen, if you're not gambling the house, it's not a big deal. If you have a family and kids and you're gambling the house, well, like, then there's something a little bit more wrong in what you're thinking. If you want to get on a diet and you want to try something, it's not a big deal. Go for it.

Yes, for sure. I say it all the time. I mean, you're young, especially young people. What are you waiting for?

Oh, well, if this is there and I finish this and I— no, forget it. Just try it. You're not gambling the house. You're not losing everything.

You haven't taken a mortgage on your— a third mortgage on your house. No, you're not there yet. So you're fine. Yes.

In that moment, I say go. When things get risky and you have life at risk, people at risk, your responsibilities at risk, well, you know, then you need to think it through a little bit more. You know, you can't risk everything all the time. It's just not life.

It doesn't make sense. Sure. I speak with entrepreneurs and I see sometimes they say things like, oh, we have to figure it out. Like, they don't want to start until they figure it all out.

But even in me, I see that if I don't start, there's so many things I don't know. And then when I'm— let's say I'm at point D. Yeah. Then I realize, oh my God, if I did not start, there's no way I would have seen all these other things that, you know, were to come.

I you. You have to start. You have to start. Yes.

So starting doesn't mean you're going all the way. It just means you're starting. You're taking the steps to get moving. You're plunging, you're going, but you're not, you know, sinking yourself into the idea.

It's starting. And there's nothing that's going to happen without starting. So you could plan and study and write down all the plans you want, the business plans, but if you don't take action, nothing's going to happen. Now there's a limit in how far the action is, but yeah, you got to do it.

If you're not going to start, nothing's going to happen. Another question is, what are some of the misconceptions most people have about business and what is the reality of it? It's easier than what it is. Once people see that people are successful on TV or whatever, on social media, it's like, oh my God, they're so lucky.

So luck. They're so lucky. Yeah, people think it's luck. There is a bit of luck, but I think that you You— and this, don't get me wrong on the, the wording— you create your own luck.

But again, you create your own luck using all the tools that I told you, like the coaches, the mentors, the surrounding yourself with the right team. So yes, you're doing it yourself, but these people are part of it too. So when you say I'm a self-made man or self-made woman, entrepreneur, Whoa, you know, it's like, it's like there's a big picture behind it that you're missing. Yeah, because you can't do it alone.

There's no way. There's no way. You know, I spoke about this to my wife a couple of— yes, 2 days ago. This is funny, this conversation we're having this now.

My dad always taught me it was we, we, we in the business. The second you say I, I, I, you just kind of demolish the whole business because your whole team is doing it for almost you, you, you. So if you as a leader is not able to turn back and say we, we, we, then what kind of business are you building? What kind of team are you building?

So yes, you're a self-made business person. You are. But are you really self, or is it, you know, is it the whole big picture? Yes, it's image-wise it sounds good, but reality-wise, not too much, not too sure.

And the Paulo, I don't know, 10 years ago and the one today, do you see a big difference? Yes. And what has contributed to that growth? A lot of reading.

Reading, changing my surroundings. Not because people were not good around me, it was me that wasn't good when I was around certain in situations. So I needed to change. Meeting my wife, um, that was less than 10 years ago.

Yeah. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. My life changed very quickly, trust me. So yes, yes, in that aspect, my wife and I met almost 10 years ago, and she had two beautiful daughters which are my daughters today, which is Micaela and Kiana.

And we had Antonino 6 years ago, so he's our little boy. And so yeah, so that all happened within 10 years. So that— and it's funny because I have a note that I keep of my gains, uh, my gains today within the last 10 years, you know. And it's true, like, so much has changed.

I read the Bible, like, I never did that before. We go to church, um, I still have all my old friends. We still have a great time together. We still have a glass of wine, and I mean, we have great meals.

But then I have my other side where I'm more like centered. I just want to be more calm and just be around my family. So I think I have more balance now from what I was 10 years ago, whereas 10 years ago was just business and fun. Yeah, but you didn't have a family.

I had no family. I had no family, had nothing attaching me. Mm-hmm. Whereas now it's my health, my family, my kids, my business friends, my coaches, my mentors.

These are all things that are very important to me. Priorities change. Yeah, big time. I have mentors and coaches now that I look up to, and I don't want to disappoint them.

And I know that I have tendencies of being disappointing. And so I work— they hold you accountable. Yeah, I work very hard to try to keep everybody liking me, but being the best version of myself, I guess, is what I try to do. Are we every day?

No. Do we work at it? Yeah. You said something about a note, like your gains.

What does that mean? So there's a book called Gains. I'd have to take off my phone. I think it's called Gains.

One of my mentors told me to read this book, so I started getting into it. You get into this book right away because it starts telling you to write out, like, what are your gains today? Meaning in the last 10 years, from where you were 10 years ago to today, what have you gained? Okay.

What's been better? What's getting better? Because there's a lot of things that could be negative. So instead of writing the negative stuff, just write the things that went well.

Okay. Although things— so you, you look into the past to see all the advancements and the growth? Yes, to today. Now, although you could have maybe lost so much in the last 10 years, find the gains.

Yeah. So it's a type of gratitude thing. Yes, some, somewhat, somewhat, but more factual. It's like, tac tac tac, like this.

So you could do it every week, you can do it every month too. And just, you know, even though you had a crappy month, just say, but what went well, you know? And, and note. So it's kind of a great— yeah, it's a gratitude, but like very like specific.

And do you have something that, like, let's say you write your goals for the future? Yeah, of course. 10 years ago, like, did you have something like that or no, to say this is what I want to be? Truth be told is that when I founded Medspace was going to be 10 years ago.

I only discovered this a year later. Yeah. How to write goals and how to plan. So how and how to be a lot more intuitive, more in the how do you say, like, take control.

I actually wanted to do this. That was through John Maxwell when I discovered the whole John Maxwell team. And I followed him and I was stalking him, actually. And I ended up in Orlando and I got certified, became a certified coach of John Maxwell.

And so did my wife afterwards, once we met, and she became a certified coach. But my, uh, so, so when I discovered that whole world of coaching and leadership is when that, uh, changed for me. So the first year of MetSpace, it was just, you know, office space, rent office space, and that was it, right? It was a flex space.

Okay, I had some office spaces and I was just renting, and then it became a community, and then we turned it into— hold on a second, these people need a support and We brought that whole aspect. Okay, okay. So you're helping the entrepreneurs that are— Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm there for anyone who wants to come and sit with me.

I don't chase. I'm not going to start— as people, some people just don't want to hear you, so there's no point of being on top of them. But anyone who does want to sit down with me, my door is open. They know it 100%.

Anybody could come and see me. So you made that clear with me? It's very clear. They know it.

I speak to them in the hallways. Hey, listen. You want to have a coffee? Let me know.

Sometimes I'm in a rush, right? And they're trying to catch you there. I'm like, okay, wait, hold on, just book a time, man. Let's have lunch.

Let's have coffee. So that means that entrepreneurs can reach out to you if they need, I don't know, sound advice when it comes to business? Yes, that's something you can— 100%, yeah, yeah. And how do they reach out to you?

Like, somebody's listening now. LinkedIn, we're here. Uh, Face— Facebook Messenger, Instagram, call me at the office, email me. You'll find me if you're really hungry and want something more in life.

You'll find me. You'll find anybody, actually. You can find the hardest person to reach in the world if you really want something. The desire to make it happen.

100%. Is it curiosity or is it real? ' That's not true. Come on.

You know what? We didn't invent the wheel. People have been, have been building success since the beginning of time. So that's not true.

And then speaking with you, seems like somebody who's very like welcoming. So I guess that makes them feel at ease that they can come and share, I don't know, those burdens. We know in businesses sometimes it's not easy to be able to share those they're not secrets, but deep down struggles that maybe other people in their family might not understand. Or if they're a solopreneur, let's say they don't have anybody to, you know, pour out their heart to.

I guess this is where you come in as well. It happens. Yeah, I, I guess, um, you just have to be open. Uh, am I welcoming?

I think I am. So sometimes, sometimes I feel like I'm not, like, so I try to smile and try to have that welcoming approach. But I've never said no to anyone who actually wants to sit down with me and talk. So how do you help them?

You set out a— they tell you their current situation and then you— we just talk. And then I really want to know why are they— like, what's the situation? I don't have a plan. I'm not that type of coach with like set up plans and stuff.

I don't do that. I just, you know, I have business models. I do my business, I do my thing. And if I can add value to you, that's where I come into your life.

I'm just a questioner. I just ask questions until we figure out what's going on. And if my questions help you find your answers, then great, because that can happen too. You're answering the question, you're like, oh, I have the answer already.

They have everybody. We all do. It's just That's the whole key about surrounding yourself with the right people. Yeah, the environment.

Yeah, it's like who you're speaking to, and then a lot of times they'll find their own answers, and, and it's okay. That's, that's the whole point to it. How would you define your style of leadership? I don't know.

I would have to ask someone else. I'll ask you the staff. Yeah, you'd have to ask my team. Uh, not sure.

Some— sometimes I could be I could be aggressive. Sometimes I could be very calm and understanding. It depends on the situation, depends what's needed. And honestly, they'll ask me for it.

Like, if there's something going wrong, they'll kind of invite me to be a little bit different or less understanding or more understanding. So I leave it up to them. What do you need from me now? And that's where I'm going to help you.

The one thing I want is my team to be doing their own thing. I don't like them coming and see me with just problems. Come and see me with solutions. Yeah.

They say, this is the problem, but here's our potential solutions. Exactly. What are your thoughts? If they're coming and see me with no solution, then are you wanting me to take action on this or are you going to take action on this?

And most of the time, no, we'll do it. They'll take it back, right? Because it's like you're not coming. So you need to come with solutions instead of just— so it depends, depends on the situation.

Let's deviate into networking a little bit. Okay. Networking is important part of business, especially you said back then used to be in the commercial real estate, which you still are in that space. Yes, yes.

And it's a very small you know, it's a small community. That's what I hear people say. Okay, correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, everybody knows everybody.

Yeah. So if somebody wants to like get into the industry, get known, find out, you know, another to potentially connect and communicate, just like we talked about, and then convert, what are some of the techniques or how do they go about doing that? Well, okay, so commercial real estate is one world. We're in the flex space.

So there are two different worlds and they're two very— they are very small. They don't, they don't, they don't almost— they don't even connect at some points. I've been noticing that over the last couple years. They try to, but it's like very difficult.

So when it comes to business or real estate or any— you, you need to be around the right— I'm going— if you need to hang out with the right people, um, take the time to maybe connect with people. Call them, call people who have done it before you and who are successful. And take the time to have a coffee with them. And so do you just call and say, would you like to have a coffee with me?

And you think they'll say yes? Most will. If they don't, you don't even want to speak to them. I mean, I've never been told no so far.

I don't think so. So unless I was chicken to call them, which still happens to me, like some people I still haven't called, but the ones that I have called have all met me. But let's say the entrepreneur is maybe they just started a few years ago or 5 years have been in business and they want to reach that person that's on top? Well, you got to be in the right places.

So if there's a, if there's a real estate forum that's going on, go. Maybe meet some people that work with that person, you know, work under that person, become friends with them, and make them introduce you slowly without even asking, right? Because then they'll like you, so they'll say, hey, come, I'll make you meet XYZ. So you got to be out there.

You know, the real estate forums, any event that you can be in that has to do with your world. Yeah, just follow the events that are around your industry and get out there and just shake hands, shake hands, make friends, open yourself up. That's hard. Open yourself up means like just be open.

When you walk into a room, if you're not— if you, like you said, shake hands you're going to shake hands and like, hello, and walk away? Or are you there and say, hey, hi, I'm Kathy Bernard and I'd like to meet you and just have a conversation? That's being open, I'd say. What if they're shy?

That's hard. I know. And I could be shy. The worst part is I could be really shy.

So it's moods. I get mood swings. I'm a bit crazy sometimes, I guess. What do you do?

You know what? Bring someone with you. That's a good point. There's nothing wrong with bringing someone with you that gives you that encouragement, or maybe gives you that little fuel to go, go talk to that, sir.

You know, like, start that conversation. You know, that's for somebody who's starting, right? Sometimes you just need a push. Yeah.

You know, you're alone, so go maybe with a mentor or somebody you look up to. So you want to come with me? And just maybe the person can guide you or push you into— like, I speak to a lot of brokers, younger brokers, they Okay, you're reaching out online, I get it, it's fine, but there's nothing like this. Yeah, there's nothing compared to this.

You can't compare it, you can't. If you want to reach a certain level at one point, you have to get off the couch and then just start. You have no choice. Yeah, you have no choice.

The online billionaires, there's few. I mean, they, they have a great idea, they go online, they make it happen. But in our industry, real estate or any type of business development where you actually— people want— you want to connect with people and you're not selling a bottle of water, you need to go out there and meet them somehow. I mean, you could start online, but eventually they'll want to shake your hand.

What's the most uncomfortable thing you've done to grow the business? Or I don't know, in the past, be honest and ask for help. Be honest. And with myself and start this whole train of communicating with people and asking them their opinions and maybe not hearing what I wanted to hear when my idea was made.

It doesn't mean I had to take their, everything they said, but it added value to my decisions. That was the hardest part for me because at the beginning, like I said a long time ago, I thought I just knew everything. So I had to break that to become more humble. Yes.

And that's hard. That's hard when you're an entrepreneur. You have an idea, you're on fire, you're just like, nobody. And then someone says, yeah, I don't know.

What do you mean you don't know? I know, I know this is what's gonna happen. No, it's not. And then you're arguing and it's like, what a waste of time, instead of just sitting there and saying to the person, what do you mean?

Like, tell me more. Doesn't mean I have to listen to the person, but at least listen. Not listen— I'm gonna listen to the person, absorb what they have to say. Doesn't mean I have to do what they tell me to do, but at least it could maybe save me from making a mistake.

So that was the hardest part for me, to work on becoming more humble. Yeah, yeah. Although I came off very humble with people, like, I'd be like, oh yeah, I really didn't care what they were saying. And, and it was horrible because then I mean, wow, I could have used that advice.

I made such a mistake. I should have just listened to someone who passed before me. Hence the importance of making mistakes. Yes, because I think we need that pain sometimes to make us like, whoa, okay, wake up.

Yes, we have to deviate our course, you know, become somebody else. There are things that I feel like you cannot teach. The person has to experience that on their own. Unfortunately, it's sometimes not always— it's going to hurt.

That's it. But, uh, hey, big time. Sometimes we all have to go through it. But that's the, that's the beauty of learning.

Yeah, you're 100% right. You go, you nailed it. You want to learn or you want to just keep on, you know, you know, and take that rotating door at the shopping center, you know, it's going to hit you in the face once, it's going to hit you in the face twice. Like, what are you going to move out of the way?

Yes, you have to learn from those mistakes. Yes, because otherwise, oh my God, it's self-defeating, right? And you have all these things going on— many businesses, family with 3 kids. I also have 3 kids.

Yes. How do you manage all of that? And you said you had balance, which I'm very surprised. So maybe you have a great support system.

Elaborate. I do have a great support. My wife's awesome. Um, so she works hard in the business, but Her main focus is the family.

So that's very important to us. Although she's like almost full-time with me doing— I'm always calling her and making like, dude, let's do this and let's do that. And I'm like driving her nuts. But at the end, the main focus is the kids.

So you have to have a bit of a balance. Grandparents, my mom, her mom, everybody's there. So we have a great support system. My daughters, forget about it.

About it. My son, they'll— if they'll— they— it's— we're golden on that side. Are we 100% balanced? No.

Who is? I'd be lying to you. Come on. But, um, we do our best.

It's not easy sometimes. It's just, you know, but you do your best, and we're there for each other. We're honest. Uh, something's up, something's wrong, we gotta fix it right away because there's too much going on for it to become an issue.

Is there's enough issues that you don't want that to become an issue? You mean like on a personal level? Personal level, you know, like, like, you know, you said balancing with the family, like those things need to be like nipped in the butt and you got to fix it and you got to move on because there's enough things that are holding you like around So yeah, are you ever going to be fully balanced? That's not true.

It's not, you know, it's just finding the what fits with you. I mean, you have 3 kids, you know, your husband's there, there's family, there's friends, there's, you know, school. Thank God they go to school. I think that's what school was invented.

So, so all that's cool, but then there's the activities, right? The soccer and the this and the who's horseback riding and who's who's doing this one? It's like, oh, like, hello. How do you stay sane, you and your wife?

Luckily, we have our little date nights every once in a while, so that's really cool. And we do take time every night. Like, we'll sit down and maybe just watch TV or just like— which we would never do, but then like that, like 15, 20 minutes, just sit down and I'll watch, I don't know, something just to calm us down and connect, right? Um, we'll take trips, we'll take— we'll go to our coaching, like with our— with our Michigan, like you said, Michigan.

So we go there together, so we'll take an extra day, just take a walk, go for lunch and relax, and then come back to the zoo. Oh my goodness. Well, at least you get to have the time to, uh, connect, you know. I don't want to say disconnect completely from your business, but— and family, but, you know, take a step back and to reflect, you know, and get your energy back.

Like, what do you guys do? What is it? Well, same thing, but it's something that we're continuously working on it. Yes, like the date night.

I find it's harder at night to take a date night, so we do date day. I don't know if there's such a thing. It does. We're allowed.

It's okay. We're allowed. So yeah, because they're young at night, we're with them. We have to do homework and all these other things.

So yeah, I agree. We do the same thing. So it'll be lunch. It could be some— like, we have the 18-year-old there.

So if she's free from school or from any obligations and she says, okay, I'll watch them, then we're good. Like, well, then we'll go for a nice dinner. But no, you're not going to go for dinner till not going out till midnight, that's gone because someone's gonna get up at 5, 6 in the morning and be like, hey, I'm here. You're not gonna do that.

So life changes. Yeah. So yeah, it's exactly the same, but it's beautiful. Like, we know why we're doing all of this, and, uh, it's fun if you're happy and you're on the right page with your partner, uh, and you challenge each other enough, you know.

It doesn't become just boring in just a relationship. You have good friends, good people, good vibe around you. It's all good. Yeah, working with your spouse could be challenging, but like you said, good.

It's got its challenges. Yes, of course it's got its challenges, but I find more good than bad. I would say so too. Yeah, it's actually fun.

Yeah. And if there was one thing you would change, let's say, in your business, things that you've done from, like, you would change in the community on the way things are? What would you change if you had the power to fix it? I've, you know, I've asked myself that question, you know, what would I have done if I had to start it over?

If I— I don't know. I don't, uh, maybe think a bit more ahead financially, be more prepared, you know. If you think you're gonna need $1, get ready for $3. If you think it's gonna take One year, get ready for 3.

I thought you were gonna say 2, not even. Oh no, if you think it's gonna go good, get ready for it not going good. Yeah. So just being more attentive and more aware and prepared, you know, go for it.

Like we said before, jump in, do what you gotta do, but be smart. Like, don't just throw all your eggs in and say it's gonna work out. It might work out, but you're better off being prepared, especially if you're educated about it. If you don't, you don't listen to podcasts like this, you're not reading the right books, and you're not listening to people, you're not speaking to anybody.

Yeah, that's what happened. Yeah, that's great advice right there. Sound advice. Yes.

And my last question is, what do you like about the city of Montreal? I love the city of Montreal. What do we like? The food.

Most people say, ah, the food. Come on, you can't compare it. Our atmosphere, it's still so such a vibe, such a multicultural vibe that's united still today with everything that's going on and whatever it is. Yeah, everybody's still cool with each other.

We're not so bad. It's not as bad as it seems. Well, Paulo, it was a pleasure to have you on the Montreal Entrepreneur Podcast. Thank you.

It was such a pleasure. This is so cool. Nice conversation. I was looking forward to it, and I'm very, very, very Please them.

It's nice. Until next time. Talk soon. Anytime.